Exotic Car Marketplace

All right, and welcome back to the Ferrari marketplace. I’m William Ross. I’m your host, and I appreciate you guys, uh, checking out and, uh, listening. I know it’s been, I think it’s almost been two months since I’ve actually dropped a new one. So my apologies for that, but I’ve been a little tied up doing a few other things.

I did some traveling and whatnot. So, uh, trying to squeeze these things in was a little difficult. So, Well, I mean, I probably could have done it, but honestly, I’m just a bit lazy. So didn’t really get it all put together, but I got to get that all situated. So now I’m back at home so I can start putting some more of these out for you [00:01:00] guys.

So today’s episode, what we are going to talk about is probably, you know, I know my one, I said about the GTO is probably my all time favorite for you. Just, you know, and Hey, you know, I, I’m a child of, Hey, I was born in 1970, but you know, in my teenage years, you know, obviously. In the 80s, bedroom walls, whatnot, 288 GTO is what stuns me, but then as we know, towards the end of the 80s, the venerable F40 came out.

So, it’s almost a tie between the 288 GTO and the F40 as being my favorite Ferrari. Now, you know, I like The thing I love about the 288 GTO is, I mean, it’s, I want to say understated, but you know, basically it is, it’s the 308, 328, just kind of beefed up, uh, obviously a lot better motor, everything like that to it, I mean, it’s not nowhere near, you know, derivative, what have you, what you want to say, but you know, the F40 basically was built up, uh, basically from scratch, you know, now the motor was actually taken from the [00:02:00] 288 GTO Evolution, but everything else was built up just for that specific car.

yeah, So let’s kind of jump into how it became about so obviously as we know the 280 GTO Ferrari created that vehicle and built the 272 of them But what it was built for was to go group B rally now I don’t know how many of you out there the group B rally fans. I’m a big one of it I love watching those videos from back then those guys are absolutely nuts I should say gals too because there are some women also racing very very well to Michelle Mouton was awesome But anyways, you know, they built those cars For that rally series.

Well, as they basically got going to it, group B got the ax. Well, in that time when it was getting close, when they built these is they built the two 88 GTO evolution. Now the motor they built in that car, um, had some, you know, better turbos, whatnot, you know, it was [00:03:00] a lot bigger motor, so to speak, that was put in that car and they built the five of them for that.

And so, but then when Gooby got killed, they had no place to go with them. So they’re like, okay, what do we do? We have this thing. Well, basically it was all going to get, you know, binned and never seen again. Well, one of the individuals at Ferrari says, well, hey, you know, since we have this motor, why don’t we do something along the lines of building a car that celebrates our 40th anniversary?

So what they did was, is, you know, they Propose this idea and being that this is actually the last car that Enzo Ferrari himself signed off on his signature to it. As I guess everyone would say, you know, that’s what kind of gives it more of its aura. It’s nostalgia to it because of that fact of You know, it went basically from that concept and idea to [00:04:00] basically a road going car in 11, 11 months, some say, some say 11, some say 13 months.

So I’ll just say 11 to 13 months. It was, it basically got designed the whole nine yards, it got built and put together, stuff that motor in there and do it. Now, if you know what the car is, well, you know, obviously it’s all down to about design, very aerodynamic, a lot of time in the wind tunnel, uh, to execute.

plus the fact is it was, first cars or the first c car to be able to go over

Which was never verified or never done, but that was always an argument and no one was really going to go against Ferrari and Enzo themselves saying that’s what was going on, so they just kind of let it be. But anyways, you know, the F40 getting built, you know, that thing is, is one of the first cars to use carbon fiber.

So, you know, in essence, it’s more, it’s a carbon Kevlar mesh weave that is used on the [00:05:00] exterior and the body panels on that car. So it’s basically one of the first, the first car to utilize that type of material, that concept for a car. Now it still had a two frame chassis, but all the exterior panels and all that were all done out of this carbon Kevlar material.

So if you own one today and you crash it, it’s very, very expensive to fix. Um, you know, and their main goal obviously for this car too was lightness. So, they stuffed that 288 GTO Evoluzione motor in there. Twin turbocharged cranks out about roughly the average is around 470 to 475 horsepower now Obviously as these things were built the various levels of horsepower kind of fluctuated amongst the cars There was really no set one.

So that’s just good for some, you know hand built Italian machinery So, but I mean, you’re still in that range, say between 470 and 480. Let’s just ballpark it in there. But you know, and for that car, it’s got tons of torque. That’s the other nice thing about this car. It’s got gobs and gods of torque. It’s got 456 foot pounds of torque.

[00:06:00] So that thing gets up and goes like right now. So it’s a very, very fast car. But the other advantage it has is it only weighs about 300, uh, 3000 pounds dry. So. I know 470 to 408 horsepower, these, this day and age, like, oh, that doesn’t sound like much, you know, Camry’s getting close to 400 horsepower and all this crap.

Well, he got a car that only weighs about 3, 000 pounds, so, you know, you got your horsepower to weight ratio there, so it’s, it’s very, very agile in the fact that that thing can get up and get moving very, very quickly. So, um, you know, and everything they kept in this car to keep the weight down. They obviously, with the carbon Kevlar, uh, exterior body panels.

Uh, also to the minimalistic interior. You know, every car built was the Rosso Corsa and also had red interior. But, you know, interior wise everything was gone. No, no carpeting. Well, take that back. There’s no carpeting on the Forza, but there was carpeting on the dash. Some people kind of fail [00:07:00] to realize that or don’t know that that they actually carpeted the dash.

Why? I don’t know. I’m not sure if it had to do with sun glare maybe or something, but they did carpet the dash. I mean, it’s not like a thick blush carpet or anything like that. But, It is a carpeted dash. Um, it’s not the mouse hair stuff that they used back in the day along those lines in the older cars that used to have that.

Nowadays it’s a nightmare to try and replace and get fixed. Um, but it was a carpeted dash, but everything else is gone. You know, everything is deleted. I mean, No door handles. All your door handles that get out of that car, it’s basically, it’s a wire cable to get in or you yank on that to get out of the car.

So, you know, everything’s out. You know, this is just a pure driver’s car. You know, you’re not going to sit there and jam the tunes and go tooling around or anything. No, it’s all about that motor that’s sitting right behind your head. There’s your music. That’s what you want to listen to. So, getting that thing built and get up and going.

When this thing was revealed to the world, you know, they built this thing pretty hush hush and obviously rather quickly, within basically a year. You know, [00:08:00] they bought it and revealed it to the world and immediately people went bonkers for this car. You know, it was just, you know, something, if you look at it, it was something that was never seen.

You know, something like this for a road car was never really done before, especially by a manufacturer like Ferrari. You know, now I, I just. Back then the main competitor like who they’re going against or everyone pitted it against was the 959 These are two totally completely different cars that 959 as everyone knows a tour de force Technologically, it’s got all wheel drive the computers everything like that, you know And even them selling those at the four or five hundred thousand dollars They I think they were still they were losing four or five hundred thousand dollars every car So basically I think it cost them like one to one point two million To build each car, but then they sold them, you know, basically half that price But it was a technological exercise for him, but you know to German engineering down to the nth degree, you know But then you got the Italian passion.

So two totally completely cars two completely [00:09:00] different driving experiences But anyways, this car got released to the public people just went absolutely crazy Now the other fact was is, you know, this being basically the last car the Enzo put his signature You know, it’s two and stamped for approval to get produced Speculators, everyone was going through the roof in regards to getting their hands on them and flipping them and doing everything so all these things happened.

Now, the original allotment, they were only going to build 400 units of this car, but due to demand and just, you know, everyone just absolutely going nuts for the car, hey, let’s build more. So, that kind of upset some of the people that were first through the door and it really upset a lot of speculators, but anyway, if I care about the speculators, cause You know, they’re not very fond of people buying their cars and flipping them.

They are not fond of that at all. You know, as everyone knows, it’s what it takes and what it entails for you to be able to get on the buyers list, you know, to get in Ferrari’s favor in regards [00:10:00] to getting access to all these new special cars over there. Yeah, you don’t flip these cars. No, you don’t give them, you don’t sell build slots, you don’t do any of that, because as soon as you get that, even when you’re done, you’ll never get offered another car again.

It’s not like you go and get banned for 5, 10 years and then come back. No. Doesn’t happen. Um, they’re stickler set. You know, they’re not hurting for people wanting to buy their cars, so, it’s next man up. So, anyways, they built, ended up building up to 1, 315 of these cars. And, obviously, that was over a production run of about 4 years.

So I mean, it’s, you know, it’s a nice run. So, you know, you look at, was it about 300, you know, three, a little over 300 cars a year they built. Um, obviously the earlier cars, um, especially the ones that came over here to us, you know, after 1990, they’d have Cadillac converters, but you know, Euro spec and US spec cars are rather different in regards to just how they drive everything, uh, the suspension, the whole nine yards.

Yes. Obviously the mandates are required to make the car us homologated. You know, really kind [00:11:00] of kills things and that’s what things I don’t really like about here in the United States in regards to cars that we get, you know, they’re so gentrified, so to speak, in regards to, you know, safety and everything like that and all this, you know, if they just, you know, it’s just obscene way to get, you know, the cars that can get over there in Europe, you know, are fantastic as compared to a lot of the cars we, you know, the cars we’re able to buy over here in the United States.

I mean, point in fact, the new M3 Touring. I was telling someone the other day, you That, you know, I had a deposit already and at the dealer, but they just told me it wasn’t coming out of the States and I told him, look here, take, take 500 bucks. And if it does, by chance, then, hey, I want the first one, but it never did.

And, but they still had my 500 bucks. It was like, I’m waiting to see, you never know. Right? So it’s one of those gambles you take, but anyways, back to the F40. Now. Obviously with that many getting out there, they’re going up, but prices actually kind of held steady on those cars. Um, and as obviously demand grew, [00:12:00] price grew on these cars, you know, you know, this is back in, you know, the 90s and spending like a million.

I know Nigel Mansell’s F40 back then in the 90s sold for like 1. 5 million. Now, that’s a lot of money, but obviously having, you know, Nigel’s name attached to it or back to it, you know, had to do it. Now, me, myself. I’m not one to spend and pay extra for just because someone who else owned the car. I could care less.

Only thing I care about is that person who owned it, took care of it, has all the records. That’s my biggest concern and that’s what I want to keep an eye on. That’s what motivates me wanting to buy a car. Not that so and so’s ass sat in him. I could care less. You know, um, it does nothing for me. You know, a lot of people out there, somebody out there does, you know, does add value and people pay for it.

Why? I don’t know. You know, it’s just, to me, I just don’t get it. You know, there might be one or two cars out there that were owned by someone that might mean something. You know, maybe by Schumacher or by Senna, you know, someone on those lines. But [00:13:00] the thing is, you know, a lot of these guys that own those cars, they’re like four or five owners ago.

It wasn’t like it just came out of their collection or anything along those lines. No, it’s way back. So what’s the point? You know, I don’t get it. You know, and that’s really too, like all these people paying all those gobs of money for stuff that Steve McQueen owned, you know, I don’t get it. You know, now a couple of cool things.

You’re like Paul Newman’s Rolex. Now that. Sold what was that 15 20 million dollars Paul Newman’s Rolex Daytona now that’s obscene money Just wear a watch, but you know what that name tied to it and with the engraving that was on it Okay, you got something there, but still I would have spent 20 million dollars.

That’s just me I think I might be wrong if I’m wrong. I apologize. That’s on me Just kind of want to I know it’s some kind of obscene amount of money But anyways, let’s get back to our topic, right? The F40. So anyways, so they get out there and, you know, they’re playing for these cars. Hey, this is just a road going car.

That’s all it was, you know, [00:14:00] made for. You know, they didn’t have any plans to race this car. They had no intent of racing this car. Well, obviously, when you have a car that’s got that much capability, horsepower, light, people are going to go race it. Hey, look at the McLaren F1. Same thing. Gordon Murray’s like, hey, I don’t plan on racing it.

But then what happened, they go race it. And then first time out, they go out and they win Le Mans. Basically with a stock car. So, anyways, people started to clamor and wanted a race car and get to build it. So, ends up doing is, they end up teaming up, uh, with the Bicolati and they end up building the F40 LM, with LM standing for Le Mans.

So they built this car up and this thing, obviously, they stripped out more weight somehow, somehow, somehow, some way they did. But one of the big things is the motor. They took that thing apart and rebuilt it. They stuck on much larger IHI turbochargers and basically, basically put it up to, I think it was almost 38 PSI on those things.

[00:15:00] Where the road going standard stock ones were like 16 PSI. So right there to tell you, so. And it got it up there over 700 plus horsepower and there are really no definitive numbers on torque, but let’s just say the torque was probably up there too. But anyways, you know, they stepped it on, took that motor, reworked it, and they said if they really unleashed it, you could probably get close to a thousand horsepower with that motor.

Um, but anyways, normally just because of sanctions and whatnot in the race series, they did it. Obviously, you know, they get kind of, uh, restrained a bit. So they built 19 of the Ferrari F40 LMs. Now again, these, these were lighter, bigger motor and whatnot, and these were just racing cars. You know, but obviously it was derived from the streetcar.

So, just, you know, aesthetically, you know, if you’re in the know, you can tell the difference between the two, the wings, the wheels, everything like that. But you know, just someone out there, they’ll just know it’s an F40. I mean, you got that iconic rear wing. I mean, that car right there and there, you know, many, many people just know, you know, of F40 when they see it, they know that’s a Ferrari, they know it’s an F40.

[00:16:00] So, Price wise let’s talk about pricing on these cars now. I’m my business is I deal in Ferrari So I’m kind of dealing price wise with these cars on a pretty regular basis now I actually I mean, it doesn’t sound like that many only 1, 300 cars built, you know The LM side, you know that the 19 built so they get up there in price now You see people jump around but I’ll tell you right now currently at this time day and age in July of 2022 You’re probably in the 1.

8 to 2. 5 million dollar range for an F40. Now, a lot of factors will play into that if it’s class E certified. Um, you know, mileage plays a big role in that, ownership. Another big thing is original paint. If it’s got original paint on that car, then you’re talking some good money. Because when they built those things, they put on barely any paint.

Because again, about weight. You know, it all boils [00:17:00] down to, let’s keep the weight off. The ones where, you know, you can see the exposed, basically carbon fiber, uh, Kevlar weave. Um, you know, those things are worth a lot more money just because of that fact. Um, you know, obviously cars throughout time, you know, things happen to them.

But if you can come across the original paint one, plexiglass slide side window one too, you’re going to pay top dollar. You’re going to be in that 2. 5 million plus range. You know, and again, hey, I’m always telling someone when I’m working with them. For what they’re looking for, they’re looking for the pay for the best thing that you can afford, you know, what’s your intent with this car, you know, people aren’t going to be going on, you know, country slogs and this thing driving across country or going for 10, 12 hour jaunts in these cars.

These are, you know, people use these as a weekend toy. They’re gonna go out for an hour to go to a cars and coffee, go to something along like that. You know, unfortunately, you know, they don’t get exercise the way they should. But the other side of it is to is [00:18:00] The people that, a lot of these people that have these things don’t have the capability to handle all that power and drive it, so God forbid they crash it because that’s just, ugh, there’s some repair bills you don’t want.

So, you know, the other fact too is take into account when you buy this car, be aware of the fact of maintenance and what it takes to keep these cars road going. You know, they have a lot of maintenance that needs to be done, just, they get timed out, so to speak. You know, like the fuel bladder, it’s every five years that that thing’s got to be replaced.

Uh, that’s a very, very Large undertaking just to do that, you know, all your rubber bushings, everything in that car, especially if you’re not driving all that much, getting the fluids going through it and, you know, getting that thing exercised to stuff just starts getting dry, gets brittle, you know, that that’s one of the things too, is when you have cars like that, you need to drive them, you know, that’s what it is.

It’s a car, you know, these cars need to be driven. I’m not saying you need to drive 50, 000 miles a year or something like that, but take it out a couple of times a month. If you have that ability, depending on where you’re at in the country, And [00:19:00] go for a couple hundred mile drive, you know, once or twice a month, you know, exercise that car It really really needs it.

Now. We start talking pricing to the LMS. Now. This is where it gets a little I guess Interesting now now you go out there and you look and see what people say what they’re going for now I’m not sure where they’re coming up these prices because I’m seeing a very very low because a couple of the LMS that I was Trying to source and find some is that we were in the About five to six million dollar range.

Now, I’ve seen a couple of things people saying, Oh, it’s only about like three or four. I don’t think so. You know, you only got nineteen or something like that and people are going to start paying through the nose for it. Now, and again, it’s going to boil down to mileage, class C certification, all that.

Now, obviously these were basically, these were race cars, so you really couldn’t put them on the street. But, I know there’s a couple out there that they basically got, you know, uh, I don’t want to say federalized, but they got turned into so it could be a street going car. Again, making a street [00:20:00] going car over in Europe as compared to the United States is less undertaking than it would be over here.

Over here, it would take a lot more to it and basically you’d, I don’t want to say kill the soul of the car, but you know, you’d be taking away a lot of things and adding stuff to it that really, and why would you want to drive that car in the street anyways? I mean, it’s just going to beat you up. I mean, you’re going to be bouncing all over your kidneys.

It’s going to be hating you. Anyways, uh, it’s something on it, but you know, out there in the market, you’re looking in that five to six million range. Now, I know some people say, Oh God, no, honestly, but look, I can tell you right now, I was, you know, working on some deals with those and trying, you know, hunt some down and that’s the prices that we’re getting.

you know, that need to be done to get it paid for and bought. Um, and obviously some people balk at it, but some people get it. So it all depends on the buyer, what they’re willing to step up and pay for the car. So, hey, there’s only 19 of them ever built. So right there, you got that exclusivity to that car because compared to anyone else.

So it’s all depends on how much of a big hearer you are, right? [00:21:00] So anyways, the Ferrari F40, again, my, I guess you say my I hate saying second favorite, most favorite Ferrari because I said it’s right up there with my first Fiat 280 GTO because I just think that F40 is great. I, I got to drive one for all of about maybe three minutes, um, just kind of punching real slow and all that, but even with that, just doing it was such an exhilarating experience.

It was unbelievable. Um, it’s just, it’s so cool. I mean, it’s just, I would give anything to be able to just take that F40 and just tool around and just like, I want to see it. Not so much let loose because God forbid I’d crash it. But you know, I’d be paranoid. So, but just to take a look, it’d be fantastic. I know one of these days I get it.

Now, that’s one of my goals is obviously I’d love to have an F40 in my garage and sit there and get up every morning. and walk out there and just stare at it for hours on end. My wife would think I was nuts, but I would just grab a chair and sit there and stare at it and just take a cloth to it and just [00:22:00] rub it down all day long just saying, this is my baby, this is my baby.

You know, I’d go live in some shack if I had to but that’s what it means if I could afford one. So anyways, you never know where the road takes you, right? You never know what in life is going to happen. So, anyways. That’s it. I wanted to talk about the F40, kind of get into it. Like I said, I didn’t dive in too much detail wise with this car.

I mean, I’m sure everyone that’s listening to this podcast, you know, pretty much knows what the F40 is, you know, all the specs on it. So I’m not going to really dive into it. I just kind of wanted to get into more the nitty gritty or certain aspects of it. Just about, hey, what they’re going for, you know, what the basics of how the car came about.

Um, you know, it’s, it’s a great story and how quickly that thing came to the market. Um, and, you know, again, being the last ones that Enzo rubber stamp. So. That’s what I want to leave this app again. Hey, you know, I know I haven’t been around for you much do stuff But alright, I’m getting back up on the horse to get these things out going again So I’m debating on what the next one might be on.

So maybe we’ll just do the f50 next Maybe I should just start going down the line, right? You [00:23:00] know when that last manual supercar the Ferrari built everything out that was automated. So let’s talk about that one next So let’s get that up on the thing and we’ll have it on hopefully here next week. Maybe a little bit sooner Alright guys, again, I really appreciate you listening, uh, spread the word, get other people listening, and check out the YouTube channel also, uh, if you want to, it’s Garage65, uh, kind of covered it, but I also have the Ferrari Marketplace, um, channel that deals just with Ferraris, so I’m headed to the Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix weekend this thing, and uh, I know they got some big deal going on with the, uh, 75th anniversary for Ferraris, so that should be pretty exciting, see what cars are there.

So anyways, again everyone, I appreciate you listening. Uh, stay tuned and more coming. Hey, take care and have a good one. Talk to you soon.​